SPEAKER_00 0:00

So, Andy, good to see you again.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

And good to see you, although the circumstances are kind of like a funeral, but once again, we are here at Ethan and Andy Go to City. Yes. It's kind of like a funeral where there was a ray of hope for two days, and then it was all dashed yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yeah, it was a tough weekend getting swept by the lowly Rockies. Um you thought those two wins maybe were the sign that they come out of their collective funk, but they're right back in it.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And they're just not hidden. It's like even when they get decent pitching like with McLean, they just don't hit enough.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yeah, I mean, you even think about, you know, Senga was completely ineffective, but he was gone and they didn't give up another run after he left. But it didn't matter. If if three runs is the damage that you can't overcome, you're not going to win many baseball games.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

And of course, we uh we had the bad news that just as Soto got back, Lindor is out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Same day, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

That's crazy. Yeah. With the same injury, same injury, but different legs. Yes. I saw I saw somebody post on uh on a blog saying, well, the good news is that 50% of Lindor's calves are just fine. Yeah, it's it's grim. Yeah it's grim. Where do you stand on um firing Mendoza?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Well, it's not gonna make a big difference, but it's about the only thing they can do at the moment. I mean, I don't I doubt there's an impactful trade they can make. They don't have people really in the minor league system that they can bring up. Not ready. Yeah. So I mean, it's probably won't make a difference, but what else are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Yeah, I was very much of the mind, especially during the losing streak. Don't fire Mendoza. He is not the one not hitting, he's not the one who assembled this group. You know, is there anything he can do that makes Bachet approach his career numbers? No. But I've come around a little bit, not only because if you got to do something, it's something to do. But like when um when uh two relief pitchers came out at the same time in the ninth inning the other day, um, that seemed a little like unprepared. There's a lot of mental mistakes that go on. That seems to be maybe a uh a condition of of preparation. So I I'm and then also it's not just this year. I mean, they this team has underperformed since late spring of last year, even even with a different cast of characters. So a lot of the blame I think goes on um on Stearns, but I but I also am beginning to think that Mendoza's not getting the most out of people.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Right. That's the thing. I don't think Mendoza is adding anything at the moment. It feels unfair that he get becomes the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong, but you have to try something. And whether that's, you know, and you know, maybe Beltran takes his place or maybe they hire Alex Cora. I mean, but you know, you do need a different approach.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

You need something. I mean, something's got to change. And and yeah, like you said earlier, I don't know that a new manager does anything. I don't think he's hitting wrong buttons, but I just I just don't see this team mentally, you know, in the games. And that that I think falls on the coaching staff and the managerial staff. I mean, but yeah, it's awful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Exactly. And you think that, I mean, at the moment, I almost blame David Stearns more than Madoza because he's the one who put this team together and sort of this was his time to do everything. But if you fire David Stearns now, what do you do? It's even less impactful than firing the manager.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, you know, that's that I don't think that works. I think I think he's got to be held to account, and I think he's got a lot to answer for. I read something in The Athletic actually on my way here, where it said in raising the potential ceiling for this team, he also lowered the floor. Did you speak to that morning? And I hadn't thought about that, but it's true because a lot of the guys he brought in, um, you know, Polanco for one, um uh Straubart Jr., like these guys don't always stay on the field, right? Not that Siri did last year either, but um, but it was that's an interesting take I hadn't thought of, and maybe that's true.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Right. And and if for whatever reason, it seems like uh most players that come to the Mets need like a season to get adjusted to New York. You have a you know, five players that need to get adjusted to New York, and if they all have bad seasons, this is not going to be a good season. They're doomed.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

I mean, and a lot of the a lot of the uh blame has to fall on. I mean, it's it's a little hard to to blame these guys because they are what they are, but like Beatty showed some some signs of breaking out last year. He he's beginning to prove that he's not really an everyday major leaguer, or maybe even a major leaguer. Vientos is a you know, he was so hot when he when he finally got some playing time this year, didn't really help the team win, but now he's back to being cold and he's you know muffing things at first base. I think the sort of supporting cast is not coming together in the way that maybe they hoped, you know. And Benj obviously taking his his his hits, I don't mean like base hits, I mean his you know his lumps. Yeah, it's rough.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

No, and I don't know how much if the minor leagues is completely uh Stearns' fault now or or uh plus, I mean, because a lot of players were coming through the system when he got hired, but it's like who has done well? I mean, Alvarez has been okay, and he certainly has the potential still to be a star, but he's been injured and he's hasn't hit consistently. And yeah, and then Beatty, Vientos, and and all the players that you know that they got and some of the they got rid of, and none of them have proven. And even Mauricio has certainly not taken advantage of the opportunities had so far, though hopefully he has a couple of weeks to show what he can do.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah, I think Mauricio is I I you know that injury that he suffered a couple seasons ago was devastating because it it really robbed him of very um needed development time. And then last year, I mean he sat on the bench for weeks on end, and that's that's you can't treat a young player like that. So I think he gets a little bit more rope than than Vantos and Beatty, but but it's interesting because if you think about it, the guys that they get just got rid of was the previous wave of the homegrowns, Alonzo, McNeil, Nimmo, right? Those guys all came through the farm system and they all proved themselves to be major leaguers pretty good. I mean, in Alonzo's case, I mean he had 53 home runs this rookie year, right? So very, very quickly. This next wave has just not is not gelling nearly the way that that that first wave did or the previous wave did.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

No, and there seems to be a lot of pitching down there, but at the moment, McLean is the only one who has really shown. And even he is like only going like five innings, and I'm willing to give him some more rope because I mean those five innings are looking terrific, but he still needs time to like perfect his craft.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

He they they said on the on the broadcast the other day, on the radio broadcast, this was his 14th major league start. So that's not a lot of that's not a lot of education, so I agree. But you'll see I'm wearing my I usually wear my New York Mets hat. This is my Syracuse Mets hat. It's my subtle suggestion that maybe they just swap rosters with the AAA team. I mean, how could it possibly be worse at this point, you know?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

So I know, or did they just put Syracuse or Binghamton on on SNY?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, probably get better ratings. It's really this is a really, really painful team to watch and follow. And a lot of it is because of expectations, and a lot of it is because of payroll. I mean, you and I are really old Mets fans, and we losing is not alien to us, but this level of investment in the club and flopping reminds me of that. What was it, the 92 season when they brought in Vince Coleman and Bunia and even and they flopped.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Yep, the worst team money can buy.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, that one is that was that '92, I think it was ninety two or ninety-three. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's reminiscent of that.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And it's amazing to think you have a team that has well, it's the thing, it hasn't had Soto the entire, but you have Soto and Lindor, and hopefully they're both gonna be at full speed at some point this season. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yeah, I mean, and those two are superstars, right? Those two, you know, it it always takes more than one player or two player in baseball to lift the whole, you know, lift the tide. But the supporting cast is so underperforming. It's just it's just nuts. It's just nuts. And we haven't even talked about, yeah. I mean, I mentioned Sang a little bit earlier, but like he's unplayable right now.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, yeah. There's this, and I don't know what you do. I mean, like if you just release him, I'm sure he tacks on with somebody and becomes a psycho or exactly. And you know, they also talk about maybe he'll agree to go down to the minors again, which what does that do?

SPEAKER_00 9:04

It didn't do the trick last year, exactly. So they didn't come back last year. Yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Exactly. But so okay, well, the small bright spot is the start of the pitching rotation. So you have Peralta, who, even though he can't seem to go more than five innings, still looks like a good pitcher. And you have McLean, who's still learning, and you have Holmes, which I mean, actually, he may be the most consistent best pitcher this season.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And consistency is exactly what he brings, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. And the bullpen, I mean, obviously Williams is is uh has spit to bit. I think Kimbrell's done, but uh Brasabon had looked good, so that's good, and and Tobias Myers looks pretty decent. So, you know, there's and and we're probably gonna get Minter back eventually, so there might be some solidity in there. But yeah, it's it's really hard. I mean, it's like grasping for st at straws to come up with something good to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

I know, and I have a small drop of I don't know, it's sympathy exactly, but understanding for Williams in like when he whenever that game he blew uh was the first time he pitched in two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, it's I know, but it's a little hard to judge him on that. Um, yeah, and that that's a function of them losing and losing big for 12 games in a row. Yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

But yeah, and but that also could go to like to the manager again, because even though bringing the closer in when it's not a real save situation sometimes can backfire. But if he hasn't been pitching for two weeks, he should have been in a couple of times just to keep him right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

But the problem there is what if you bring him in in a non-safe situation, you know, just to get him the work, and the work turns out to be more than you wanted it to be, right? And the next day you need him to save. You know, I I that's a that's a really dicey proposition, but you're right. Like, who's gonna stay sharp with two weeks of not put pitching? I mean, yeah, so maybe again, maybe that's that's an indictment of Mendoza. I don't know. I you know, Mendoza looked like he pushed all the right buttons in 2024. There are certain seasons in baseball that you know a team seems to be, you know, blessed and they they rise above their collective talent, and and 24 is beginning to look a little like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

And even in the best of circumstances, it takes time for new teammates to gel. Yeah. And and if they were just playing 500 baseball, you would give them a lot more leeway.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

That's correct. But they're playing what 333 baseball or something. It's awful. I mean, the weird thing is the Phillies have the same record, so those guys must be pulling their hair out too. Uh to me, that was a little more predictable because I s I even looked at the their roster last year looking forward. I'm like, they're gonna be a pretty old team next year. And then, of course, they lost Wheeler, um, but he came back this weekend, I think. I think so, yeah. Um but um but those are two teams that were expected to be, you know, way up at the top, and they are both just scuffling. I know.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Atlanta's sort of winning the division, but almost by default.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, I mean, I I've heard some people say they're surprised by Atlanta, but Atlanta had like Murphy's lost season last year. So I was I'm not surprised by it. You know, they they they have a lot more health than they had last year. That team is perennially good, even if they're even when they're even in an off-year like last year, the talent is still so obvious. So never count out the Braves, ever. It's true.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

I know, and it's it's tough trying to think of things to talk about. I mean, just to jump back on the manager again, I mean basically they fired the entire coaching staff and kept Mendoza. And now in retrospect, it's like almost they should have gotten rid of Mendoza with everybody else, or they should have given him people that you know he's worked with, and it's a it's a team, and the manager has his team that he wants to rely on. So there's probably some degree of getting to know these new people too.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

It's it was it was a huge turnover, you know, um coaching staff and roster all at the same time. And I guess that's really rolling the dice more than maybe the fans recognized. I don't know. I think also, too, we were if you remember back in the in the offseason, we were all panicked that there was nobody to play any of these positions. So we were so glad that he filled those spots. And not only did he fill the spots, I mean Bichette is a print all-star, like it looked like he'd filled some spots with some really good people, and and there was reason to believe that um that Luis Robert maybe not be his all-star level, but that he would be better. But you know, uh too much change all at once, it looks like. You know, I don't I I think we were also relieved that we didn't give much thought to like, do these pieces really fit?

SPEAKER_01 14:00

No, it's true. And the fact is, because of this awful start, it's it's gone to the point where you know, if Bouchep plays up to his usual numbers, and Soto and Lindor are back, and they even they're hitting their usual amount, and Soto hits still manages to hit 30 or 40 home runs somehow, they're still not gonna be good enough. It's it's it you know, they might maybe get to a playoff spot, but I mean that's looking less and less likely. It is.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

I mean, they're 10 games under right now, so even so if they play, you know, yeah, they have to play tremendous ball just to get to 500. Yeah. Um, you know, obviously it's still early. A lot of different things can happen, but the problem is I'm just not seeing any hint that somebody's coming around. And that's a problem. Uh one thing I did notice is they also seem to have already hit into a whole season's worth of line drive double plays in one month. So I think I I can't attribute everything to luck, but they've had some pretty bad luck too, it seems to me. So it's almost like everything, it's again it's Murphy's Law like the Braves last year. Anything that can go wrong is going wrong.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

So just for the the hell of it, like if you could do anything with this team, what would you do? Uh it's you know, say you would have Lindor and Soto at full strength and Alvarez a catcher, but then you start saying, I mean, yeah, if you could do anything, you didn't care about money, would you cut Semyon and like put Bichette at second base?

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Uh it's and then but but even then what Beatty's playing your third base? I mean Beatty's not hitting that much better than Simeon. So um I don't think there's a quick fix. I wish there were. Um and the outfield, you know, this I mean the fact that they had to bring up Tommy Pham shows just how thin the the outfield depth is on this in this system. I mean, that's nuts.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

And you should have, and it should have had two or three people. I mean, I know there was who got hurt um the day before spring training ended. You know, that was who, but still, you should have had two or three talkmans.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Sure. And and then and Melendez came up and he's actually doing okay. He's like been their best hitter, and he was kind of a throwaway. But like, yeah, uh if if in April Tommy Fam is your is your your next tap, I think you've you haven't built the depth that you need. It's one thing if you've got cycled through five outfielders and you're now digging at the depths, but yeah, it's it's bad. I don't think there's a quick fix. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

And Ryan Clifford's been hitting better in AAA. And I don't know. Strikeout machine. Yeah. But I mean, maybe I would rather see him strike out than watch Polanco somehow try to make it, but even though Polanco, again, is supposed to be a you know good hitter. It was his defense that was the question mark. Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Well, yeah, the sad thing is they wanted to improve. Look, I I understand not wanting to give Alonso the money and the year, especially the years he wanted. I get that. But the idea was to improve defense. They have not that that first base defense is not all that improved, if at all. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but it certainly has taken a mega hit offensively. So you'd need like Keith Hernandez style gold glove first baseman to make up for how little they're hitting over there. Yeah. Boy, this is the most depressing podcast ever.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

It really is. No, and then I mean, this is something I've read about in a lot of the stories that of course, you know, after last season, the uh the problem, if you looked at what the Mets' most pressing problem was, you probably would have said the pitching, and the pitching not lasting in more than four or five innings. I mean, so again, forgetting about money, but you know, you keep the offense basically the way it was, and you in and you invest in getting several pitchers would seem to have been the the way to go.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I mean, they got Peralta, and that that's a good move. Yeah, but I would say this. I would say Alonzo, I don't blame Stearns that much for letting Alonso walk. I it's a huge hit. But I do think that you didn't need to trade Nemo this year. You could have waited till next offseason. I don't think you needed to trade McNeil. I mean, yes, they're aging, but like McNeil is still younger than Simeon is, you know, and Simeon hasn't hit in years now. So uh yeah. I I mean a lot of this, a lot of this is on Stone's shoulder. I don't know how you I don't know how you carve it up any other way.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

No, and and then if you start thinking about the future, I mean, you know, if Bachette doesn't start hitting, then you know, maybe he wants to opt into uh his other $40 million years on his contract at the same time. Maybe he wants to get out of here as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

You know, it's so funny you say that. I go back and forth. Like he could be like, I can't play in New York, get me out of here, or he could be like, I'm never gonna get this kind of money off of this year. And he opts in. Now, if we if we subscribe to the notion that it sometimes takes good players a year to adjust in New York, then having him opt in might actually pay off. Right. Um, you know, Beltron was that way. We talked about this last time, but there are other players who have demonstrated that. But I mean, I can't believe in April we're already thinking about like how do you fix this team in years to come? It's it's really no, I didn't see this coming at all.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

No. No, I did not either. So the only other I think I can um do we have any uh memories of 86 or rather decent years to talk about? Um I do like that uh Jeff Perlman book, The Bad Guys One. Yeah, and you realize, I mean, just the pitching staff there. I mean, besides Gooden and Darling and Ojida and Sid Fernandez, who you kind of forget about sometimes, and they were all like 10, 11, 12 games, uh, 12 and 3 by the all-star break. And like, and Aguilera was there, and he was like your worst pitcher, and he would probably be the eighth on this team.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Absolutely. And that's you know, and that's an era too when like those guys would if they only went six, something went wrong, you know. So like, and then you had a Roscoe and and McDowell at the back end of that bullpen, and like it, I mean, God, that team that was the that's the anti-2026 team. That team could do no wrong, right? Um, and it it too had a bunch of homegrown, right? Backman was a homegrown, Dijkster was a homegrown, Mookie was a homegrown, Gooden was a homegrown, um, so many, you know, Kevin Mitchell later in the season was a homegrown. Yeah, Daryl obviously was a homegrown. And then they brought in really great, they not for that year, but the the guys they brought in, Carter obviously behind the plate, Hall of Famer, uh Keith Hernandez near Hall of Famer, Ray Knight, future MVP of the World Series. I mean, like they they they didn't make a bad move on that time. I know they got rid of George Foster when they needed to get rid of George Foster.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

And brought back Lee Mazilli.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah, that was a that was oh my god. It's it's it's hard to believe it was 40 years ago, but um boy, that was a different era and a very, very different team. And and their manager, I mean, you had more faith in Davy Johnson than you'd ever have in any any manager before or since, at least I did.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

No, it's true. And then um and like Davy Johnson you know had no qualms talking to the media, and he had like his daily show that like every before every game he was like talking, he was pretty blunt about what he felt about players. The team, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

You also had managers back then being the brains of the operation. Now you have the front office calling all sorts of shots. And like, I don't know. There's something to be said about the way your players respond to you, maybe if they know you've been through the trenches, or or the person making the decision has been there. I mean, Stern's never played baseball. No. I mean, maybe he played in high school, but he didn't play real competitive baseball. So yeah, I there's a lot about the modern game that's a little harder to root for, I'll say.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

I know. And it's like, and like we said, I don't think it's going to make a huge difference, but you know, possibly if Beltran becomes the next manager, you know, I mean, forgetting about the way his playing career ended. I mean, you know, he has the credentials, you know, to he knows what it's like.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

And everybody says he's brilliant, yeah. Yeah, but the way it ended is that to me is such a stain. I know.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Uh, the one thing about going back to 86, uh, there was that game where um both Orasco and McDowell were in the same game. Oh, when they switched right field.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Was it right field or left field?

SPEAKER_01 23:13

I think right field, I think.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah, yeah. And uh Pete Rose was the manager of the Reds back then, I think. And he was like looking at the biggest. And going, that's going through the rule book, and and David Johnson was just laughing all the way to the bank. That was so brilliant. Yeah. And they also got warm-up pictures every time they came back.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

That's the big uh Pete Rose was complaining about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

You know what? Watching Pete Rose get outmanaged, revenge for Buddy Harrelson in 1953. Yeah, no, those were that was the thing too. That team not only was really good, they were arrogant as hell that came from that came from Davy Johnson, but permeated the entire team. Um that was that was such a that team was so much fun to watch. And it really should have been Dina Dynasty. Um, unfortunately. It wasn't. But so what? We'll have AVC later. Exactly. Well, should we wrap this up? I guess on a good note.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

So we're at the end of another Ethan and Andy go to city, regretfully. And we can hope that in two weeks we'll have better news to report on, and at least the Mets might be going in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

It's hard to imagine they'll be going in a worse one, so there's that. Alright. Alright, thanks for another good show.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

See you in two weeks.