Ethan and Andy go to city. Well, hello Andy. Hello, Ethan. Here we are again. It kind of feels like the same old story, but yep, we're back. Been a couple of peaks and valleys, more valleys. Yeah, I mean the peaks, they had me believing when they were what there's that five and one homestand. They took two of three from the Yankees. They had me believing I should know better. I know. And the thing is the pitching has sort of done mostly what it's supposed to do. But they just they just can't hit. Yeah, they can't hit. Um Peterson is is an enigma uh on the pitching side. But it looks like actually Manaia's actually done pretty decently. Yeah. I don't know if that means he can move back to the starting rotation or but Peterson's a problem, and obviously they lost Clay Holmes, and that's a huge problem. Um but yeah, you're right. It comes down to they can't they can't get quality at bats. What's that about? I do not know. Basically, Soto is the only person who's hitting, and he's out for with the flu for two days, and they can't get one, two hits at most. Yeah, it was crazy. It was it was crazy. I you know, I was saying this before we started recording, but the thing I've really come to the conclusion about is uh that I don't think Beatty and Vientos are major league regulars. Um, you know, maybe when Lindor comes back and they move Bichette back to third, those two can be a platoon at first, but to rely on both of them in the lineup day in day in and day out is just not working. No. And it's too bad. I mean, you know, they've had you know a few periods when they've been okay and Beatty's slightly better defensively, but they just uh I don't think they can uh they can't hack it. They can't hack it. It's and it's what's frustrating is you know, Beatty late last season showed some real signs of progress. Um obviously Vientos had a great 2024, and you you're gonna dream on building on that, but they just they just those seem to be flashes in the pan and not the real thing. That's a problem. And they certainly can't be high up in the uh batting order. I mean, if they're the seventh or eighth hitter, maybe, but you know, because of all the injuries, they've had to be uh relied on more, and they just they can't. Yeah, and then obviously Semyon's not hitting, he had a home run the other day, so um, but he does that and then hits you know 220 for the rest and and weak contact. It's it's really the problem with this team, besides all the losing, is how boring they are to watch. You know, they're like I remember in the early 80s or the late 70s when those teams sucked, and but you didn't have the expectations that they were gonna be good, so you kind of like knew what to go into. But there's something really frustrating and boring about watching people who should be more talented than they are play the way they've been playing. Yeah. I know it's just none of these players, except I guess for Soto and Lindor, have much personality at all. Like, and there's nothing to really can well, of course though, well, the problem, one of the problems is that they're all new, you know, at least and we don't have the history with them. Right, right. Um They've also had a tremendous amount of bad luck. Apparently, like if you look at the you know, if you look at the analytics, a lot of the a lot of the bad balls are are um finding gloves that you know typically shouldn't be finding gloves. But then the injury bug, it's unbelievable how many guys get injured. Yeah, and when I saw the other day that Soto was out, I was like, I was relieved he had the flu. Like, you know what I mean? That it wasn't like he was gonna be on the shelf for another three weeks or four weeks or whatever. It's it's grim, Ethan. It is grim. It is, Andy. No, and we look for things that might make us feel slightly optimistic, and there really isn't much. I mean, the pitching has basically done their job, but then of course you have you know Noah McLean having two bad starts in a row, which is perfectly normal for a rookie pitcher. But a disaster for his team. Yeah, yeah. And Peralta's been fine. He's not, but he's not uh I don't know. He was he's he seemed when we faced him, he seemed much more ace-like than now that we have him. He's fine, but he's not and he's only making like eight million this year, so it's not like we're paying him like an ace, but um but yeah, it's a it's it's a solid, I would say it's a solid pitching staff. Um that bullpen's been really good. Um, but yeah, it just comes back down to offense. But you were talking about optimistic signs, and so I think that we should be talking about sort of the resurgence of Benj, and we should talk about Ewing because Ewing is a bit electrifying. Yeah. What were your impressions? No, he is. I mean, he's a good in the outfield and he started off very hot at the plate, though he's cooled down now, but you can tell that he is a major league player. And I mean, who knows? Because he's still a rookie and you know, he's gonna go through ups and downs, but the two of them really seem to make a huge difference when they're up. I mean, it's it's sad that like when they're building something on the rare moments when they're building something, I get excited when either Benger Ewing is gonna come to the plate rather than any of the veterans who are quote unquote proven, except for Soto, of course. Right. But he's been fun to I mean, Ewing has been fun to watch. He reminds me a little bit of Lenny Dexter in terms of his tenacity. I don't I don't think he's maybe got the same personality issues, which would be a good thing. But he knows how to grind out in a bat. He knows he he works he works pitcher, so it's fantastic to see. Runs hard, plays hard. No, the two of them I think have a bright future. And quite frankly, if we're gonna be losing, I would rather be watching them and some of the other people from the minor leagues than, you know, at least you can dream on, you know, what it's gonna be like next year when they are a little more experienced. Yeah, I agree. I um I thought they brushed more beauti up, and he ended up, I think took an over for his. I don't think he got a single hit while he was up here. But I do like the concept of if we're gonna suck, let's let the kids play and see what we got. I mean, he seemed a little over in in over his head. I know, and I mean it seems like you know, like Semian, even though his defense has been good, I don't think it's been quite as electrifying as it was supposed to be. And, you know, no matter how much money he's making, I wonder if he should, you know, they let somebody else play second base for a while. Yeah. I mean, they I don't think he's missed a single game, which is like he's a black hole in that lineup, but you know, among many black holes in that lineup, unfortunately. Yeah. We talked a member uh several several podcasts ago. We talked about MJ Melendez and how exciting he was, but he's he's showing who he is too. A reason why he was DFA'd or available for on the cheap. Um, yeah. Uh we need we'd I guess we need the Jose Iglesias of this year. Who's that gonna be? Who's gonna be who's gonna bring Grimace in to throw in the first pitch? Because they have very similar records now at this point this season that they did in 2024. But I don't know, you it that's asking lightning to strike twice, I think. I know. And I try to remember how I felt like at this point. And did I was I as like down on them, or did I really think that they could have the ability to make a run for it? Maybe they will if they could, you know, if the of course the first thing is they have to get to 500, and then we can see right anything else. Baby steps. Yeah. Well, also if you remember, 2024 was the year after that big sell-off in 2023. And so everybody went into that season talking about it as a year of transition, and that they we should start thinking about 2025. Right. So when 2024 started off poorly, I don't think anybody was, I mean, disappointed because they were 10 games or 11 games under 500, but not not disappointed in terms of what their expectations were. This year everybody's like, oh, this is a 90-win team, and you know, they're lucky to be an 80-win team, right? Lucky to be an 80-win team. So yeah, I think so. I, you know, comparing how you may have felt in 2024, I think I just think what the expectations were set at going in were a lot different. So you had some surprises, like that was Mania's best year, and he really, you know, he stepped it up and then and then Stearns believed in him, and he's not delivered anywhere near those good since. It reminds me, 2024 reminded me a little bit, not in terms of how it unfolded, but it's interesting 2024 to 2025, because when the Mets made the World Series in 2015, I thought that they had exceeded what they were supposed to do. Like I thought like 2015 was going to be a kind of a building year, and I was gonna get excited about 2016, very much in the way 24 was supposed to be a building year. We're supposed to be excited about 2025. It's almost like they they jumped the gun the year earlier and then and then totally shit the bed the next day or the next year. Interesting. It is, and of course, I mean, that was uh the year when they made the you know big trade for CESC's at the trading deadline, and I can't imagine them pulling off a big trade, and if they did, that would really matter for this year. I can't remember. I remember they were they were treading water pretty much in 2015 when they made that trade. They were not buried in any way, shape, or form because it was not a a foolish trade. It wasn't like, you know, um grasping at straws. But like, you know, if they keep playing this way, there's no there's no reason to do anything but sell. Yep. And they even might start thinking about it sooner than later. I I'd like to see what happens when Lindor comes back. I don't know when that's gonna be before they really push the panic button. But and I mean, I guess it is in the grasping at straws, but there was sort of an injury report the other day that people seem to be progressing faster than they thought, that Lindor has started baseball activities, that Alvarez is. Alvarez is yeah, which is weird that it's like, you know, he keeps on getting injured, but he keeps on coming back very fast. He does. His injuries are weird. I mean, those thumb injuries, I I I have a hard time calling somebody injury prone when they're jamming their thumb or falling on their thumb. That's like, you know, that could happen to you and me. Yeah. It's the soft tissue stuff, the the muscle tears and the and the um you know, the tendons and cartilage tears, those are the ones that you go, uh, is there, you know, is he now put together white? So this was a weird injury to me. I think Lindor coming back, you know, that should stabilize the team a little bit. It's gonna cost um Beatty and and Vientos playing time, which is good because they don't deserve the playing time they've been getting. Honestly, it kind of comes down to um Bo Beshet figuring it out because without that, with him being an automatic out, and and Mendoza stubbornly keeps him up in the top of the lineup. Like, if he's gonna work it out, he can work it out in the seven-hole, too. Like he they, you know, Benj has has turned things around, but then you've got this kind of automatic out before you get to Soto. Like, I know it'd be lefty, lefty, lefty, but I would love to see Ewing, especially against the righty, Ewing, Benge, and Soto in that top three. I think those are guys who know how to work a picture, know how to grind it out. Right. Start off the game getting several hits, even if like later in the game there's strategy to get around that. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then the other thing, uh we talked about this once before, how I was beginning to get on the get rid of Mendoza bandwagon. And I it's probably too late to do anything now. I mean, you could still do it, but but like the other day when Peterson was pitching and he didn't back up, I know. Like those are the kinds of things that can't happen. And those are the kinds of team things that bad teams do. And I and those are the things that man the manager has control over. Managers should coach and they and I don't, you know, uh Ron Darling was talking about it, that like it didn't seem anybody was getting on Peterson in the dugout about it, and maybe they dealt with it later. But like, you know, heads need to roll, sparks need to fly. I mean, the this team is in the doldrums, and when you don't do something as basic, I mean, uh, we backed up bases when I played high school baseball. It's like it's crazy. It's crazy. At this point, probably the only um alternative really is Beltran as a new manager since he's in the butt I mean we didn't even want. I mean, I know he wants to be a manager, but yeah. But now with these guys, I don't know. I don't know. I I I think I I stand by what I said. If if Bachet is gonna just be like this all year, they that I don't care who comes back. I don't think they've got it. I don't think they've got the horses. If he turns it on and there's regression to the mean for him, then that he can be in for some some big hits. But well, that is the thing. Semian is not gonna suddenly become a great hitter again. I mean, he's old and he's losing it, but and he was the last two years, right? But Bichette, you know, has been a great hitter for the last number of years, so he should turn it on at some point. What he's doing right now is is unprecedented in his career. It's like it's it does not match the back of his baseball card, as they say, in the least. So um yeah, Soto is Soto and the kids are like the only bright spots in that lineup. Oh god, it's just terrible. It's like feels like we do the same podcast every time. And I was excited because they you know they had that homestead. I thought finally we're gonna like be able to talk about good things. And it's always great to take two or three from the Yankees without sweep. Always. So we will always have that. And then then when they had that burst at though in the last inning uh of the menu, yeah, yeah. 10 run innings? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, in the 12th. Yeah, that was fantastic. And that kind of made you think, okay, maybe, you know, maybe the dam is broken. But the one, as we said, the uh the pitching has been good. Um Peralta has been average, and you know, and he's certainly been a stabilizing force. McLean, unfortunately, is suffering some growing pains, which is perfectly understandable for a rookie pitcher, but you know, and he's probably gonna figure it out and start, you know, throwing up zeros again. But these last two last two games, and it's like you're starting to count on him, and when he doesn't have it, it makes it seem that much worse. Right. When you when you find yourself in a position counting on a rookie pitcher, then you have to sort of take a step back. Like you said, it's totally normal for a rookie pitcher to go through it a little bit, but it's just so disappointing because we have count, we sort of thought of him as the the new de Grom, maybe not that good, but but yeah, so when he gets his butt kicked two days in a row, two games in a row, you're like, uh, now what? And Tong has been his ERA makes him look spectacular, but he walked four guys in three innings yesterday, so um I don't know that he's ready yet. No, I have to say, in terms of managing and coaching, I mean, for whatever reason, the thing of having an opener and having Tong coming in seems to be working, and I guess they figured something out that he needs maybe. Yeah. I still find the whole opener thing to be bizarre. I agree. And I also think it's like, okay, so I'll keep Brasban in for an inning and then bring in Tong. But Brasbon's one of those guys who can go two innings. So what happens later? What happens if Tong doesn't get through and you wish you had Brasebon for the for the fifth and sixth? You know what I mean? Like I just I don't know. I find it very odd strategy, but whatever. But I mean Tong obviously has the talent and he just has to figure out how to control it. So right, he's got that funky delivery, but it's a little less funky this year. I think they toned it down a little bit. I think his arm angle is a little less severe because I watched him um and I thought I remember him being a little more bendy, twisty, torquey kind of thing. Um, let's talk about we'll go back to the past because that's always where we go for something good. Talk about um this weekend's Mets Hall of Fame inductees. All right. Bobby Valentine and Lee Mazzilli. That's right. What are your what are your thoughts and memories about those guys? I mean, Maz, um, I didn't follow him as much when he first came up with the Mets, but I mean he's you know a true New Yorker, and when he came back in 86, it was like the perfect extra thing that just you know put the team over the top and gave you something to talk about, and it made such a difference. And Bobby Valentine, you know, was a character in all kinds of ways, but he was very successful and he seemed to get the most out of all his players. And and certainly um after 9-11, he was a real leader against the field. Absolutely. So absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I I think I will never ever think of Bobby Valentine without thinking about the um the time he came back with the must the eye black mustache and all that. That's that's you know his famous moment. But yeah, he was a solid manager. I mean, Valentine's reputation has always been that he's very smart and he knows it, you know what I mean, for better or worse. Right. Um and Mazilli, I mean, you kind of nailed it that his return in '86, he was so good as a pinch hitter, um, kind of what Rusty Staub had been to. And I did follow the meth pretty closely even bet when he first came up. And he came up during very difficult years for this team. And he was literally the only thing anybody cared about. Um, I think it was the 79, was it 79 All-Star game where he hit that opposite field home run to tie it up? And then I think he walked in, he walked with bases loaded to knock in the winning run. And I remember um being so upset he didn't get MVP of the uh uh of the all-star game. But but back in those days, there was nobody who was gonna represent the Mets in the All-Star game but Lee Mazilly. He was you know the the matinee idol and the uh and a lot of the a lot of the women in New York went gaga for him, and uh that was a little annoying for a 13-year-old boy, but but yeah, I mean he's he was he was the one thing you could look forward to in a very bleak period of time for the Mets. Um I'm glad they're both getting in the Hall of Fame. I think they both have a really important place in Mets lore and Mets history, so it's good to see. No, I agree. And Bobby Valentine, it's like, you know, he got, you know, betting Agbayani, you know, is not a great player, but he got the most out of him. And you know, that seems to be what a manager should be able to do is take what he has and get the maximum output and and that made Agbayani just such a lovable character, right? Like we we loved that guy. He one place that Valentine really messed up was uh Kazmat Sui. I remember he hyped Kazmat Sui, like this guy was the you know, gonna be the greatest shortstop, and you know, he couldn't even backhand it. Remember do you remember Matsui used to run around the ball to so he could get everything on the forehand? And they and they move Reyes to second and second. And then Reyes blew out his hamstring that year. And oh my goodness. My brother has this theory that because Matsui played in Japan and nobody really knew what he looked like or who he was, that somebody on the plane on the way over bopped him on the head, knocked him out, tied him up, and assumed his identity because the guy we were told was coming was not the guy we saw. So, but that'll be I'm glad these guys are getting their due. It's nice to see. And I think that um Cohn has been much better than the Will Ponds were about honoring, you know, the traditions of the Mets. Yeah, no, I think it's made a difference. And I mean, well, of course this leads into the very minor uh tempest uh about uh morbido getting Gary Carter's eight uniform, which is a completely silly story, but it just goes to show you back in the Will Pines, like nobody, nobody's number was retired, basically. I know. I mean, who would the Sievers was retired back in those days? Casey Stangle and uh and um uh Gil Hodges. Yeah, so two managers and one player. Yeah, that was crazy. I do think they gotta be a little bit careful and not be the Yankees about this and you know, run out of numbers. And I, you know, Keith obviously was iconic um player. I I have misgivings about Doc Gooden as much as I love Doc Gooden. He really let this team down in a lot of ways, so I was a little on the fence about whether that was a good retiree, but whatever. I know. And Carter certainly was a terrific catcher, but in the end, he really only had a season and a half where he was really good with the Mets. And just like he went into the Hall of Fame as an expo, which he should have. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I don't think they should be retiring, yeah, even unofficially, Carter's number. It's only because they've only won two World Series in their whole life, and the most memorable one because it was more recent, even though it was 40 years ago. That's why that's why Carter gets that you know, that kind of respect. He was a great player, a Hall of Fame player, obviously, but like you said, just a couple of seasons tops with the Mets at that level. So I think yeah, I think Cohen has sort of um made made up for some of the failings of the Will Ponds and retire. So you've gone, I think you've covered 86 and David Wright. I think now you're at a point where you can be much more choosy, but yeah, I would agree. I and honestly, I don't know who else you would retire at this point. Raphael Santana. No. And not Jose Reyes. Yeah. You know, it's yeah, yeah, I don't know. And yeah, it's like, and you're probably not gonna you know retire Matt Harvey or or Cespedes, whatever their numbers were, I forget now. Yeah, I don't know. Matt Harvey is a real lesson in just like and and de Grom to a certain degree too, just how fragile pitching can be. You know what I mean? Like a couple of ill-timed injuries, and that's that. Right. I mean, I don't know de Grom, as good as he's been, I don't know that he's a Hall of Famer, honestly. I don't know that he's had a I don't know that he's been great for long enough because of all those injuries. Yeah. And he's still, I don't think he's won 200 games yet. He's like a hundred something. Uh I don't look, but yeah, that makes sense. I mean I mean he missed huge chunks of many, many seasons. So no, I mean, it would only be because if people start judging by other, you know, metrics and whatever. Which they will have to at some point. Um, I remember watching DeGrom pitch. It made me nervous. He was so good that it made me nervous that he would like give up a run, and that would like, you know, that would be a black mark on his on his record. I it's weird because I loved watching Harvey pitch, but the Grom, it was like, I wanted perfection from him every time. It was it was it's weird to be nervous when your ace is on the mound. And it wasn't about injury, it was just about like, don't give up three runs, don't let that ERA get over two. Well, also unfortunately, give up one run and then the Mets don't score. That's the other thing, too. That's that's true. He lost a lot of games that he deserved to win. That's true. Well, it's been good talking with you, Andy. As always, we uh we skipped a week or two in here, and it's uh it's good to be back in the saddle. Yes. Even if we're the Mets are still in the same place they were. They they never they never changed saddles this season. But thank you for listening to another episode of Ethan and Andy Go to City.