SPEAKER_01 0:00

Ethan. And Andy.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Well, hello, Andy. Hello, Ethan. Never a dull moment.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Well, there have been many dull moments, but this seems to be uh not one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

We got news this morning that uh Carlos Mendoza has been fired. We were actually preparing to like not even talk that much about the Mets because it's been so dreadful. We were going to talk about our favorite baseball movies, but uh now we have a topic that cannot be ignored. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

And I feel a little sorry for him because it's really not all his fault, but a change had to be made. And the way the Mets have played, especially this week with all the errors, that can sort of be put on the manager.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yeah, I mean, I think that if you look at this team, they have not seemed prepared uh for days at a time. Um some of these errors, like like, I mean, uh, there's always that sort of balance between the mental errors and the physical errors. But if you're if your heart's not in the game, your head's not in the game, the physical errors we're going to are are are gonna follow. And uh that just seems to be what's going on. It's crazy. Uh and the other thing, too, I see a lot of people blaming Stearns, and I don't absolve Stearns of any of this stuff. I think, you know, you can't look at a team that's been remade and is playing this badly and not blame the guy who put that team on the on the field. But they stink up the joint for you know two-thirds of last season, too, with all these players that are beloved and mourned. They're missing is being, you know, their departure is being mourned, but they stank then too. So I do think Mendoza has to wear some of this, and he finally has.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

No, I agree. And you know, the rotation might be the uh thing that's really keeping the Mets from making any kind of uh run now, but the basic defense is just yeah, they should not be making these errors. And these are these are professional major leaguers, and you know, and Semion, who's supposed to be, you know, a gold glove second baseman, is not what he used to be. And Lindor is making all these mental errors, which is really surprising.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah. I mean, again, you and I have never been uh in a major league dugout during a game or a clubhouse, so you know, a lot of this is speculation, but it just you know, somebody is in charge of tying all that together, and that's the manager and the manager of the New York Mets was until this morning or late last night, Carlos Mendoza. So um, yeah, I don't I don't think anybody can say this was not deserved.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

No. Even if it wasn't um wasn't deserved, something has to change. And um changing managers may not move the needle slightly, but as we saw with the Phillies firing Thompson and replacing with Mattingley, it did make a change. And whether whatever caused that, the managerial change played something into it.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, absolutely. And um and you know, the Phillies did it twice because when they fired Girardi to put in Thompson, they went on a tear too. So I'm not anticipating that's what's gonna happen. I think there's a lot of flaws in this team that that I don't think just getting rid of Mendoza uh fixes, but I do, you know, I I it was obviously not working under Mendoza. And frankly, after that 12-game losing streak, based on how badly they played the last two thirds of last year, I'm surprised he survived that. So uh overdue, I think. Will it make a difference? I don't I doubt it, at least not this year, but but I think he had to go. Now it's up to Andy Green. Right. With his stellar record in San Diego uh behind him. Yeah, I mean, at least he's got some managerial experience. Yeah. Um, it was one of the things that I really was concerned about when they hired Mendoza. Um, when you're when you're brought in to manage in New York, it's very difficult, I would imagine, to learn on the job because this is a very unforgiving city. And, you know, I mean, he obviously did well in his first season here, so uh not at the beginning, but but uh but um so I don't know how much of that plays a role. But I always would prefer the Mets bring in somebody who has legitimate major league managerial experience. And you know, Andy Green was not great in San Diego, but he at least he has that experience.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

True. I mean, Mendoza was uh coach for the Yankees, but there's still a difference between being a coach and being a manager, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, nobody nobody crowds around the coach after uh you know a blown ninth inning lead. They could they crowd around the manager. So uh it's it's very different for sure. But the and the other thing too, I mean, let's talk a little bit about accountability. You know, the Mets have made a bunch of like ABS decisions that were like, well, why do you care about a 2-1 pitch in the third inning with two outs and nobody on, you know, and and there's no accountability for that. Vientos, you know, this goes back a ways, but he he ran through that stop sign, got thrown out at the plate in a close game by like 10 feet starting in the lineup, the next starting lineup next day. So there's like I I don't know, I just it just felt feels a little bit sometimes like the lunatics run the asylum at that place, and and that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

No, it doesn't. And sure, the role of the manager has evolved and changed over the years, but if you talk about the things that the manager does have control over, it's bullpen management, yeah, and now ABS, because that's such a you know, it's something that has to happen so quickly.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Yeah, it's yeah, no, you need to lay down a law about it. I agree. So, what's the name of this uh podcast review? Ethan and Andy go to city. So Ethan went to City this week, and what did he and he saw a very rough game. Tell me, tell me about that experience. You went with your daughter.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Went with my daughter and uh for as a Father's Day, um, and it was the Wednesday game where they made the six errors. So the second game of that of the double header of the the first game.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Doubleheader.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Right. Um, who who started that game?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

That was Manaya?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yep. Okay. And you know, can't blame it all on him because certainly the defense let him down. But I mean, he had this long first inning where I mean he went up to like 25, 30 pitches in the first inning and he got out of it without giving up any runs. But I mean, you know, that's you're not gonna last very long if you're gonna do that. And you know, he just didn't have it. And you could see also because now there's all the it's interesting, all the data on the scoreboard now they never used to have, and you know, and all his pitches were like 90, 91, maybe there was a 92, and that was one of the whole things that his velocity was down this year, and he supposedly was ticking up, but now it seems like it's back down.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Well, it was below 90 for a while, so so at least 91, 92 is is better. But yeah, my question is what is it about the Mets pitchers that they they can't get through the first three innings without exploding? And and uh again, this might come back down to Mendoza, I don't know, but it seems like other teams have a plan of attack on the Mets pitchers, and I'm not sure that the Mets pitchers have ever had a counter. Like nobody seems to say, oh, they're swinging at my very first pitch every time. Let's change up what I'm throwing on the first pitch. There just never seems to be any counter strategy. And you know, again, maybe I'm making that up. You know what I mean? I don't have the the stats in front of me, but but it sure seems like teams come in with a plan and we don't and we don't know how to we they don't know how to adjust to that.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Right. And you know, that is again down to the manager, but also uh down to the catcher. I mean, and Alvarez, I mean, people have read that the pitchers like throwing to Alvarez, but maybe he just isn't doing the work somehow to, you know, the mental work of repairing, like and looking at what is um what the other teams are gonna be throwing at you.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Do you think some of that's pigeon coach responsibility too, though? I mean, like, okay, they we know what they're doing in the first inning, let's talk about it so the second inning isn't a repeat.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Well, exactly. And it always gets back to, you know, they fight certainly last year was not uh a success, but they fired the entire coaching staff um and replaced it with this guy, Justin Willard, who's never uh never played in the major leagues, which is not a necessity, but you know, he does not seem to have the magic touch with these pitchers.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yeah, well, and so then becomes it. I don't know. I mean, we've seen better from Minaya, we've seen better from the now departed Peterson, we've seen better, obviously, not on this team, but from Peralta. So is it coincidence that all these three these that these three have just suddenly forgotten how to pitch? I mean, I don't know. It just seems like a lot of guys are so underperforming the back of their baseball card, and you just it's could it possibly be that all accounted, you know, can it all be accounted to luck? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. But you were at the game where they started chanting Peter Alonso. Tell me what that was about.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah, no, it was uh, what was that? And you just hear it, and it's like you understand. I mean, and it's not like Alonzo single-handedly would change the course of this season, but among other things, you have uh, you know, he plays every game, never gets hurt, you know. Yeah, and he seems to be on his way to having his standard after a slow start, having his standard Pete Alonso season, and we could use that.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

We sure could. Yeah. Uh did you join in? No, you didn't? I did not. Did your daughter join in? Yeah. What now? So obviously it wasn't there, but was it was it like half the stadium, like uh a noisy group in the in the corner?

SPEAKER_01 9:32

It was a noisy group, and so you could first, well, what was that? And then you realize what it was, but we're also looking at the uh bunch in the upper deck who were uh shirtless and doing the rowing thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you thought maybe that would uh be a change in luck, but that was what we were Did it um but did it grow?

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Did it did it?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

It did it did grow. It was not Hugh in the stadium, it was not like everybody suddenly chanting it. Yeah, you know, when you look online at the clips, it seems it seemed bigger than it was.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Okay, yeah, that's what I was wondering because um there's always gonna be a boisterous few and things of that sort. But I I was I was wondering how indicative this was of a full-on fan rebellion. But but you think it was moderate rather than full? Exactly. Got it. Um, but what's the what was being at that game like? I mean, watching your team kick the ball around like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

I mean, it was like, you know, so you were all excited that Lindor was back and in his first chance, yeah, he boots it. Um, you know, Semyon makes these things, and then there was the thing also like where um I forget who was at Bat, but you know, was uh squaring to bunt and Bichette rushes in and he the guy bunts right over Bichette's head.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

So yeah, because they were saying there were uh there were things that don't appear as errors in the box score that end up being misplaced. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

And then you have things like where Vientos makes a terrific stop on the ball, which is great, but then throws it away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

I mean, you know Vientos proves virtually every day that he does not belong on defense. Yeah, it's really true. Uh so I mean, prognosticate a little bit. We've got a new manager, it's kind of the same team. Soto came back on a day that they give Lindor rest, but one of these days, unless something has broken that we haven't seen, you would think we'll see Lindor and Soto in the same lineup again. Is this all gonna make a difference to you? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

I wouldn't be surprised if they go on some kind of run. But of course, the problem is, is even if they went on a you know a seven or eight game winning streak, it wouldn't make that big a difference.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, if they win eight in a row, they're still 500-500, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

You know, with the way things go, I mean, so they're playing the Phillies this weekend. Yeah, I I could but you could sort of see them almost like sweeping the Phillies and then losing to whoever Colorado does, whoever is best.

unknown 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

I think I think it's gonna make a difference. I think, you know, but I do think if they were gonna get rid of Mendoza, they should have done it earlier. I do too. It's it's you know, and and you know, if they had done it back in April or May, then perhaps Beltran would have taken over, which I mean who knows how good a major league manager he's gonna be, but you know, he would seem to have the smarts for it and have also the preparation to play in New York. Yeah. And you know, Andy Green may be a diamond in the rough and may, you know, be a great choice, but I somehow doubt it.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Well, there are a lot of managers who are not highly successful their first time out. I mean, they're as they learn and all that, and then you know, have sort of figured it out. And I've seen clouds from both sides now, right? Can and can turn it around. I don't, you know, I don't know enough about him to really have an opinion on how he'll do, but I do think I think it was way past time for Mendoza to go.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

No, something just was not working. I mean, when I as nice a guy as he is, and you know, how we great how we always took the questions after the game, and that is part of being a manager, is working working with the media, but you know, you gotta try everything that you can, and unfortunately, part of that is like firing the manager and and seeing if that makes a difference. And it might not. It might not, but it might not.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Speaking of things that uh did not make a difference, or maybe it will make a difference. Uh Peterson was traded to the Cubs. That shocked me. I did not, I am not that they traded him, but that they traded him when they did. Right. And they actually got a piece um that's not a total disaster. It's not like, you know, a guy destined for middle relief if he ever gets past triple A kind of guy. Um what were your thoughts on trading Peterson?

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah, I mean, obviously he's you know, has not produced at all, and he I don't think he was ever gonna solve his problems with the Mets at the at the moment. I think he's definitely a person who needs a change of scenery. And I have a sort of feeling, I mean, so it happened while they were playing the Cubs, and you almost think, okay, the Cubs GM like called Stearns and said, Okay, we want Peterson, who would you like? And he looked down and says, Oh, we'll take uh what's his name? Uh Mathis. And um, and so it just turned out that that the guy they were willing to give up the guy that Stearns wanted or something. Yeah, so it was probably just more it just happened. I mean, because the Cubs need pitching.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Well, the Cubs are so desperate for pitching that it it makes sense. I mean, so desperate for pitching that they were willing to bring on Peterson, right? Um, but he's well, I mean, that guy just forgot how to pitch. I know. What the heck happened? He had been frustratingly, you know, below expectations for a while, but then he got that hip surgery, and he seemed to really respond to that. Like, okay, maybe the reason he'd been walking a lot, he had been walking a lot of people was he was pitching in pain and all that, and that seemed to fix it. But boy, oh boy, I mean, the one thing he he has to look forward to is the Cubs have an incredible infield defense, and uh that's that's what run prevention is, by the way. So that can only benefit him because he's got a high ground ball rate, and um and you know, the Mets kick the ball around and the Cubs do not. So we'll see what happens. But it'll be infuriating, to be honest, to see him suddenly, you know, excel in another uniform because why can't we fix that?

SPEAKER_01 15:06

I don't know. But it does mean a lot of these people that you know they're gonna go to other places and they're gonna do better than they are they have with the Mets.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

So the Dodgers are really good at that. Like they bring in uh not so much lately because they've been they've been shopping at the high end, but like you know, Max Muncie is a great example, a guy who was like a nobody and suddenly became a you know a cog in the wheel. But the Mets just don't seem to do that. Like, who comes to the Mets and is better than they were before? There's not that many people.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Well, I was reading a story, I forgot who it was, but I mean, saying about this, you know, people come to the Mets and they just they just don't do well the first year, but it does seem like it's true for whatever reason it is, and there's yet another reason for perhaps not totally blowing up the team and bringing in six or seven new people at the same time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

They they all have that that adjustment. Yeah, you know, it's funny Piazza always gets lopped into that group, but if you look at Piazza's numbers when he came to the Mets, he was spectacular. He might have had two weeks of adjustment, but he was really good. So uh throw him away. But Beltron for sure. I mean, you could even go back, I mean, you can go back decades with that kind of thing. Uh George Foster, who probably was over the hill, but like he had 15 home runs this first year as a Met. There's a guy who was like the first guy in 10 years to hit 50 in a season or something like that. So yeah, it's definitely a thing. And you know, you know, some of these things are they folklore or are they real? So do you blame Stearns for not realizing that there's sort of a Mets tax to a new player, or do you think, oh, that's just you know a normal lifestyle? But boy, it's it's it seems to happen a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

And pitching too. Perhaps Peralta was never gonna be your classic ace, but he certainly seemed to be capable of uh throwing five, maybe six good innings and like taking over the game for that period. And and he's lost it too.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, it's funny. After um after Severino came and you know had sort of had our it was a reclamation project and he did great for the Mets. And then you know, all we heard about was the vaunted pitching lab. Have you I haven't heard the words pitching lab associated with the Mets in quite some time. Uh so then again, you have to say, was that just a lucky season? Or you know, what's going on? It's just it's just this is two years in a row that that starting pitching can't get out of the fourth inning. And I know I know the days of you know going eight, nine innings are over, but like five, six is I mean, that's gotta be bare minimum. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

So I know, and also in talking about the pitch, still about the pitching lab, um you know, the pitchers that are in the minor leagues, whether it's Tong or uh uh Thornton who's coming up, I mean Wenninger, they all don't they seem to have issues that just have not been solved, and they all have talent and potential.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

But but what's going on?

SPEAKER_01 18:03

I know.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah, it's um and yeah, if you look at the farm, because I've seen a lot of people saying the season's done, let's just see the kids play. It's like, well, the kids are playing, like there's nobody, there's nobody on the farm that like is tromping at the bit or making his case to come up and and and even not even be a savior, but like show show his stuff. There's just nobody down there right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Well, and uh and Senga has gone to the bullpen.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yes. Well, you know, it's interesting because that first inning that Senga threw the other day, if he could be that out of the bullpen, one and done, I mean, that's incredibly effective. Right. So we'll see. But I just he's uh he's a head case. He's exactly headcase.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Yeah, yeah. No, and that's something where if I would rather see Tong have his growing pains in the in the majors than seeing get another star from Sengo, but that's not saying much.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, that's not saying a lot at all. But it's really funny because like after the Severino success, there was a lot of talk that like oh pitchers are gonna want to come here, you know. But after these last this last season and a half, I would think what pitcher would want to come here? What player would want to come here? Or player, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

I know, exactly. And they also talk about you know what manager want to come here, and then also if they fire Stearns, you know, yeah. But at some point, again, there has to be accountability on all sides of this.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Stearns, um, I don't think they're gonna fire Stearns. I think there's there's there's too much to that in terms of like Cohen waited for his guy for a long time. Uh there's gotta be a level of stability throughout the system. Like you fire a guy like Stearns, the next guy brings in all new development people, all new scouting staff, all that so and we it's like it's like hitting the reset button over and over and over. So but he's gotta wise up, he's gonna he's got a really awful track record. Um last year's uh trade deadline acquisitions all sucked. Nobody he's acquired this year has has played even remotely up to par. I mean, it's it's it's hard to defend Stearns right now.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

It is, and you but perhaps you know say that the chat was a good risk. Uh I mean, and it's just it's bizarre that he hasn't uh he's taken so long to sort of get in a groove. But with Roberts and with Polanco, they both had significant injury history, so you should have known that that was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Well, it's interesting because I read just yesterday I was reading about how yeah, they brought these guys in with who are um you know injury risks, and you should know, and just like you said, but they knew that, and they I think they still thought they were gonna get 110 games out of these guys. They're not gonna I mean they're not gonna get 40 out of Robert. They're not gonna get I mean and and what happened to Polanco? Wasn't he like supposed to be back before before Lindor? And yeah, and ah man. What happened to the what happened to the pre-signing uh physical that everybody had to pass? I mean the Brasidus should have shown up, right? Yeah. I know it's hard to be a Mets fan. It really is. I wore this shirt in part because I'm I'm trying to sell t-shirts, but more because this is a prototype, more because it's so apt for what a Met fan feels like. You just you're like, okay, they fired the manager, yay, but what's coming? You know, it's it's a befuddling team for a befuddling fan pi fan base, so or befuddled fan base. So and you're wearing a Semian t-shirt.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Right, which was what they gave away on Wednesday night. Right before you went on the on the injured list. Yeah, IL. IL, sorry, so old school, yeah. Um so I mean it's nice enough, and um but my god. And you say they they plan out these promotions, you know, yeah months in advance, and you know, it's not probably that should be a a selling point.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Right. Although again, nobody thought semin was coming back to be the semin he once was, so maybe maybe that wasn't like Bachet, I can understand because like he should not be in decline, but just like just indicative of how nothing has gone right for this team. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

And I think that that may be it.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

Yeah. Yeah. I guess we'll save our um our favorite baseball movie.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Looking look forward to the next episode where uh we'll uh each share our favorite baseball movie.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yep, that'll be fun.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

So once again, this is the end of another episode of Ethan and Andy Go to City.