Ethan and Andy Go to Citi
Ethan and Andy talk about all things New York Mets.
Ethan and Andy Go to Citi
Ethan and Andy Go to Citi Episode 10
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This is a lost season but the Mets are playing good baseball right now and the future looks bright.
Ethan and Andy Go to City. Hello, Ethan. Hello, Andy. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing well. It feels like it's been a little while since we've done one of these. I know. And one of these is Ethan. And Andy. Go to City. What's on your agenda today?
SPEAKER_01The Mets have been playing well. It's been nice to see. I know. And it's been fun. And what do you think?
SPEAKER_00I I feel like, you know, obviously I'd want them to win, and and but this team is playing carefree, and it's it's been a blast to watch. I just wish that had been, you know, from the from the gate instead of waiting till after the trade deadline. But I'll take good baseball anytime I can get it.
SPEAKER_01Well, exactly. And also everybody's healthy. I mean, Lindor and Soto are playing together. Yeah. It's yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's great. It's great to see. And um, you know, you look at Benge and how he's doing, and he's really come into his own. I don't know if he'll be a superstar, but he looks like he's going to be a really dependable player going forward. Entrees notwithstanding. And honestly, if he hadn't stumbled upon, you know, first arriving in the in the majors, we could be having serious um rookie of the year conversations with him. I think Sal Stewart in Cincinnati is going to win it. He's uh leading the majors in RBIs, and people still focus on those kinds of numbers. So but it's been great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think uh in another year, if it was somebody who wasn't that far ahead, he would really be uh under consideration. And I mean, even A. G. Ewing has uh had trouble hitting lately, but he still defensively is doing very well, and I think he still has a lot of potential.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean the nice thing about Ewing is because of his fielding and because of his speed, he's got a certain floor, right? He's never going to be unplayable if his hitting continues to struggle. And we've seen that he can hit, but at very worst, he's a fourth outfielder. Like he's not he's not like, you know, some you look at someone like Vientos who has come back rejuvenated, but like when Vientos doesn't hit for power, he's an unplayable player, whereas he would not be. No, exactly.
SPEAKER_01And and of course, Nolan McLean had uh some struggles earlier in the year, but now he's been very consistent over the last month or so. So he really seems to have come into his own as well. Yep.
SPEAKER_00And you know, all pitchers, except for like, you know, those magical years, that you're gonna have a stretch of two or three or four stars where maybe you're not putting it all together. But he's looked, he's looked really solid. I don't know that he's you know an ace in the in the way we've gotten used to thinking people like DeGrom or whatever, but he's like he reminds me a little in terms of not his style of pitching, but in terms of his dependability on like outlier. Wasn't quite an ace, but could could pull it off on Halloween. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01I know. And actually, I did not see the game last night, but I was reading about it that you know he had a bad fifth inning, fifth inning, and then he said he wanted to come out for the sixth and got a one-two-three.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I didn't watch it either. It was it was the lovely Kathleen's birthday yesterday. The kids came to the birthday. Absolutely. Uh kids came home to help her celebrate. It was a lovely day. So uh it was worth sacrificing a ballgame for, absolutely. Yeah, no, it's been fun to watch, and um and you know, I mean I just wish there were some stakes.
SPEAKER_01That's all. Exactly. Yeah. I know, and you do wonder, you hope all of this continues on to next season, but sometimes players uh are doing better when it there isn't the pressure, yeah. And there's gonna be pressure again next year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, at least they know that they can play together and they can win together, and maybe that helps alleviate some of that pressure. Um, you know, they've maybe it's a a question of them not only having less pressure, but also finally being comfortable with each other because it is a very, very new roster.
SPEAKER_01Well, exactly. And one would think that uh Bachette is probably gonna opt in to uh another year, and but he seems to have like adjusted to New York finally, and it just took a month or two.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, it's weird because as he's been doing better, and he has been doing much, much better. I mean, that start was atrocious. You want to see him do better because you want him to win, but you also want him not to be so good that he opts out, and then we have to find another third base. It's a really weird situation to be in, but um, but it's yeah, it's been it's been so much better. Let's talk a little bit of I see you have on your notes uh Louis Roberts Jr. Got picked up off waivers from the Orioles. Your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I guess I don't care that much one way or the other. It seems a shame that we're basically just giving a player away when you have the rich or second richest owner in baseball now. Um but you know, with it's not only his salary, it's you know what you would pay uh to if you didn't pick up his option and with the luxury tax, it's a lot of money, but still, I mean, it seems like was it really necessary?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I don't he's not he's not gonna do anything for you this year in terms of the outcome of the season. So in that way, and and there's no way you're picking up $20 million extension on this guy, or you know, his option on this guy, because he's just not reliable in terms of staying on the field. Um, so I don't have a problem with it. You know, I it was nice to see him doing better, and as fans, the money savings that that the Mets have doesn't do anything for us where it's not like you know an exciting per prospect coming in that maybe we can dream on. But I, you know, I I don't it may it made sense to me. I don't miss it. And if you really loved him, you can pursue him at free agent in free agency next year. I don't think he's gonna get a $20 million contract annual value. So, you know, it might work out. I don't know. I mean, obviously the Mets liked him.
SPEAKER_01Right. And I mean, I guess you could have said that maybe they could have figured out a way to trade him for some prospect at the deadline, but you know, still.
SPEAKER_00Well, remember though, he came back. He he did not have a a great offensive year. He didn't even have a great defensive year before he got hurt. Then he was hurt, and then he came back so close to the deadline he didn't really prove he didn't have time to prove anything. So, and and at that point there was still probably what six or seven million dollars left on his contract. I could see why people didn't want to offer anything for him. So, I mean, the rumors were he was he was available, nobody seemed to bite, so you know.
SPEAKER_01You know, now we get to see whether uh Nick Moribito is a major league player or not.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What are your thoughts on him? I mean, he had a great big game the other night. Right. You know, he has a couple of major league hits, finally. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and your if your first major league hit is not a home run, but is a basis clearing double, that's not so bad either. Not at all. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Again, you know, you don't know how he's gonna be, but this is why it's the one advantage of not playing for anything is you really get to see some of these players. That's right.
SPEAKER_00And they and they and then after the um trade deadline, they have so many young players now uh that you want to give runway to. You know, more beautiful up here now. Obviously, Ewing's been up for a while, but they have a whole slew of of new people that were, you know, I'm dying to see you in spring training next year. I mean, obviously you want to win, but but I I think that there's a certain amount of optimism and excitement going forward, which if you would ask me in May if I felt I mean, we could we could rewind to the old the old podcast. We were just miserable about that. So that's good. Yeah, that's good stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I just uh took a look at what the starting rotation was on the on opening day, where it was Peralta, Peterson, McClay, uh McLean, Clay Holmes, and Kodai Senga.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Wow, so only one of those guys is still in the in the rotation. Yeah. Holy smoke. I know. And only two of them are still on the team, right? Yeah. That is crazy. Whoa, that is crazy. I mean, wow. And also just shows like like, you know, when they got Peralta, you could feel pretty decent about what that rotation was going to be. And then, you know, Minaya was there too, whether he was, you know, gonna find his. There was at least some hope that it would find his 20 end of 24 uh form. But my goodness, what a change. And you know what? I mean, the rotation is pretty solid right now without all those guys.
SPEAKER_01I know. If McLean uh is close to an ace or is is getting, you know, he may get there. And Christian Scott has had a good season. Yes. And Zach Thornton out of nowhere. Yeah. And almost because he's such a different look from the other pitchers, I think that really helps too.
SPEAKER_00It's interesting because, you know, when we were growing up, you know, nobody threw. There was a couple of guys who might be able to throw what what the average fastball is now, but you know, nobody was not many people were living in that 96, 97, 100 mile an hour fastball kind of thing. It was very, you know, 94 was a good fastball. So there were a lot of guys who who topped out at 89, 90, 91, and things of that sort. And they were effective. You had effective pitchers doing that. So um, I do think there's something to that. Like if you were if a lineup is used to facing the gas all the time, somebody who's a little more crafty, and he throws strikes, which is so nice to see. He's like he had a game a few weeks ago, I can't remember who it was against, where his control was off, his command and control was off, and he just got lit up. So you know he kind of has to be on, but he for the most part has been. It's been he's been a delight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's been great watching him. And Minaya had a good stretch. He's had a couple of not so great outings like late, but yeah, but you know, I think there's still something there, and I mean we're on the hook for him, so we have to hope that he's still has something.
SPEAKER_00I don't know that he's worth his contract next year, but he's not nothing. He's not he's not useless, he's not like what Mantas was the year before. You know, he's he obviously whatever changes he made at the end of 24 have not completely stuck, but he's not awful. He was early, but he's not now. So I agree. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And he has the intangibles. I mean, he seems to be respected as a leader in the pitching staff. So yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01What are your intangibles, Ethan? Uh, you know, I'm a wonderful person. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think just go out there and walking on cloud nine.
SPEAKER_00You've got um you've got under underestimated leg strength too, I believe. Is that right? You can you used to like um move safes for a living or something?
SPEAKER_01Oh, or uh did fencing, you know.
SPEAKER_00Fencing, that's right. Yeah, yeah. I'm what are your intangibles? I don't have any. I was actually gonna maybe go to Petpoise and see if I could buy some intangibles. I don't have no intangibles. No. Oh well.
SPEAKER_01Oh well, yeah. Um just to finish off uh the pitching staff, uh, Jonathan is evidently pitching on Monday.
SPEAKER_00That's right, against the Marlins, I believe, right? Um he had a terrible season in AAA, but the last few stars he seems to have put it together. So it's be interesting to see. Have you seen any footage of him pitching Syracuse?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, but I mean I see that uh supposedly his uh his arm slot has gone is is closer to normal now, which is caused, well, I think it's caused some of the problems, but he seems to address it now. Finally, yes.
SPEAKER_00Um what is disappointing, and this is just purely ridiculous personal preference. I liked a funky delivery, you know what I'm saying? And it's much less funky looking now. Um that's that has nothing to do with his ability or or you know uh the outcome. But I I don't know, I like the idea of him having this sort of over-the-top delivery. But I know I'd rather him be effective, I guess. True.
SPEAKER_01So it's like they always want that one pitchers to develop uh you know a third pitch, and you know, and you understand that, but of course, you know, going back to like Dwight Gooden, they wanted to establish extra pitches and it like messed up his fastball, which never uh did not work out well.
SPEAKER_00And you I mean, it's rare for a guy to be a a two-pitch starter, but uh Santana was uh was essentially a two-pitch, you know, he had that killer changeup. Um so it does happen. I mean, the other thing too is you dream on these guys being, you know, top of the rotation kind of starters, but there's nothing wrong if you don't develop that third pitch and you have to be kind of a lights out bullpen guy, that's not there's value in that too. So case in point, Kodai Senga. Yeah. I mean, look at that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What are you are you a believer? I'm a believer that he can do it, whether or not he can do it on back-to-back days or or you know, every third day is another question, but it's his stuff is terrific. I mean, when he only has to worry about one inning, I mean, that ghost fork is amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and yes, exactly. And as you said, case in point, he's he doesn't have to tinker around. He I think Sango, you know, never met the man, obviously, but he strikes me as a head case more than anything else, gets in his own way. Um, and maybe not having time to think about stuff because he's called up in the bullpen quickly and only has to worry about two pitches out of the pen, even if he throws more than that, he really only has to concentrate on two. It seems to have made a difference. I'm I I'm hesitant to be a believer just because you know he was so good when he first came to uh to the Mets and then just lost it. But I just I worry that he's gonna like find a way to head case himself out of the bullpen, too. But we'll see. I mean, it's so far it's been pretty decent.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think he's made a done enough to be in the bullpen to start next year. And then if halfway through next season he's a head case again, then then you release him because his contract's almost up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the thing about him too, like I think he's only making what 15 to 17 million or something next year. I don't remember exactly the figure, which is a lot for a bullpen arm, but not a lot for a bullpen arm if he ends up being a closer. Um, so yeah, maybe they un maybe they mine some value there. It's it's it's interesting because like I know a lot of people have clamored for Tyler McGill to be a uh a relief pitcher because he's got you know kind of the makeup for that. And where's the moment where you say, okay, it's time to try him in the bullpen? I mean, they they did it with Senga only because he was unplayable as a starter and they're paying him a lot of money. Like, you had to do something with him. It didn't strike me that that was part of a strategy, it was part of desperation. Exactly. So I'd like to see, I'd like to see a little, I mean, other teams seem to be creative that way.
SPEAKER_01And then, you know, another uh something that probably would not be going on as long if uh the Mets were more in contention. You have Robert Stock, you know, who's a nice story, though, right? He's he's had a couple of good games, but also a couple of terrible games as well.
SPEAKER_00So when he's his last start, which was a really good one, and um that's exciting to see, and like you said, a good story. But he's you know, he was out of the he pitched out of the pen yesterday, and a lot of that I think is to make room in the rotation for Tong. Um because you don't want a guy like Stock, who's I think 36 years old, to be taking turns that could be going to people that you m might have a future with. Right. So um, whereas I agree, it's been a great story. You you don't want to see him taking up too many starts, I think. But yeah, I mean it's it's it's nice when guys get to you know, redeem themselves or you know, fulfill their dream.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And it's not quite the same thing, but even though Vientos has hit a couple of big home runs, I mean at this point, I'm not sure what do you get with playing Beatty and Vientos. I mean, you sort of like know what you have with them, and unfortunately it's not much or it's not consistent. Ronnie Mauricio may not be the answer, but it would be nice for him to have a stretch of a couple games to prove that he's not the answer or that you don't have to worry about him again.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think Mauricio, you know, the difference between like Vientos and Beatty is like you they have enough experience now that you can sit them for a couple of games, put them in for a couple games. I don't think you want to do that with Mauricio. And so what does that mean? That means if you brought up Mauricio, who I think has earned it in AAA this year, that means you either got to sh sit um Semyon, or you gotta sit Bichette, or you gotta sit Lindor, and they're just not gonna do that. And so it's ridiculous because he can't really come up, you're not gonna see what you have in him if he comes up and does the Beatty role because Beatty's not in there enough, you know. Uh the other thing about Mauricio is he he cannot cannot hit right-handed. So he should he should uh he should abandon that, I think. But yeah, I mean, I uh he's lost so much development time that it's hard to really have a lot of faith in him. But my god, he's got skills. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's probably too early for uh like Mitch Voigt to suddenly make the leap to the major leagues. Um but I wonder if there's anybody else in the minors that you know at least get a look at. And again, you're taking your point that again, anybody you would bring up probably would want to play every day because that's right.
SPEAKER_00I mean, especially for for kids like to to sit on the bench is like that's just they might as well be developing in the minors. But there is this urge, at least on the fan base, to like see what we got. Yeah. The easy person to sit in a vacuum is Semyon, because he's just not doing it. And you have you know, Voigt can play second base, and um um uh the other kid they got in the trade. Petre Petre, is that just he can play second base, and um and Mauricio can play second base. There's this deference to the fact that you're paying, you know, Semyon a ton of money, and he's you know the the storied veteran, but like he's clogging that, he's clogging that position up, and they've got a lot of options at that position, so it is a shame.
SPEAKER_01They were hoping he would be better, but and it's a trade-off because if you would kept Nimmo, that would have clogged up the outfield and he wouldn't have gone to see uh right. Well, you probably would have seen Benge, but you wouldn't have seen Ewing and wouldn't have seen more beautiful, so right.
SPEAKER_00No, it's funny because yes, exactly right. Nimmo cleared the runway for those those two, but the guy that got back for Nimmo clogged the runway for a bunch of other people. So yeah, I mean, there's only so many spots.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But maybe next year, I mean, I know it's they still owe Simeon something like $46 million after this year, but maybe he's becomes a more expensive bench piece next year and you and you, you know, have the balls to try Voigt there, you have the balls to try Mauricio there. I mean, there's something to be said about the the grizzled veteran who can offer advice off the bench, even if it's a lot of money. I mean, JT JD Martinez was a little that way. Marte was a little that way. So you know, you can uh there's there's there's some value in that, not forty-six million dollars worth of that, but there's something.
SPEAKER_01And I guess Simeon was hurt, so if you if he's fully healthy next year, maybe defensively at least, he is gets back close to his gold glove form. I don't know. Yeah, but age will get you though. This is true. Age will get you. Yeah, yeah. In your 30s, you're over the hill.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What does that say about us, bud? Exactly.
SPEAKER_01All right, what else uh we got? Um Andy Green's been doing a good job as manager. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Seems to say the right things and seems to have a good relationship with all the players.
SPEAKER_00Do you think looking back, seeing the success they're having now? Because when Green first showed up, he did it was sort of the same old situation. But it's a little hard to just flip the switch. But do you think that getting rid of Mendoza earlier and bringing in Green sooner would have made a bigger difference in this season?
SPEAKER_01I think it's possible. I mean, it's one of those things you can't like analytically show. But I mean, just like the Phillies, I don't know how much Mattingly has to do with how much they improved. But that was a light switch. Yeah. I mean, that was like day one. No, I think it's uh making a change, even if it's unfair to the person because you know Mendoza didn't, you know, didn't do anything egregious to get fired. Making a change can make a difference. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I remember saying at the time, and I don't know if you remember, but I said that I was not in favor of firing Mendoza. And then I changed my mind when there were so many mental errors, you know, people not covering bases or not backing up home plate. And uh, and I thought this team looked like it wasn't prepared to play, and that's that is on the manager. You know, they can't go out and and hit the curveball for you, but they can make sure you're prepared to be up there and hit the curveball. So I don't I don't know. I think I go back and forth. Sometimes I think managers have very little to do. I think managers more can screw things up than they can actually can make things better with the occasional exception. But like you said, there's no way to know. It's it's it I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I suppose the what it would be is like if there was a 10 or 20% chance that there could have been a complete turnaround. Maybe that 10 or 20% chance was worth taking, given where everything ended up.
SPEAKER_00But you know, it's but you also don't know. Well, I mean, it's not like Green. I mean, Green had managerial experience, but it wasn't like incredibly successful managerial experience. So it's yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you had the injuries.
SPEAKER_00I mean, and then it's like you just not coming back, apparently. I mean, I just there was an article today, I think, was it yesterday, about the fact that the plan is still to put it back in the front office. I mean, which is what he wants.
SPEAKER_01I mean, you know, it's like for um uh work and uh home uh balance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the work the old work life balance, yeah. Wouldn't you like a little more of that work-life balance? Like more of the work part of that?
SPEAKER_01Thanks. I'll take it.
SPEAKER_00Whole lot of life. Not enough work. You know, I've read a lot of clamoring to make him an offer that he can't refuse, make him stay in the dugout. But you don't want a manager who doesn't want to be there. Right. Uh he's doing a great job now, but maybe that's because he knows it'll end at the end of this month.
SPEAKER_01And I read some story about how, well, why not make him general manager? And, you know, there's uh which is possible. Um, because I think Stearns could use somebody to sort of deflect.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Or maybe talk him out of bad ideas.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um But he's definitely, I mean, I'm sure he is giving me one of the chief advisors.
SPEAKER_00It's just uh Yeah, I would think so.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I have to say, so you know, we talked a lot about, and everybody's talked a lot about how Stearns screwed up last year's trade deadline. Uh, you could even go back to off-season 24-25, how he didn't have a particularly good off-season that year. Uh, certainly what he did in the off-season 25-26 did not work. I will say, and and the jury is obviously still out, but I will say that this year's trade deadline feels like he did a better job. Well, they definitely did a better job because he was buying last year and this year he was selling. But I think some of the people he got were interesting. And I don't know that that redeems everything he's done wrong. It well, I know it does not, but maybe there's a little glimmer of hope. Um, some of these, some of these uh kids, I mean, they're tearing it up in the minors, they're looking good.
SPEAKER_01The organization seems to be in a good position going forward. Yeah, and just unfortunately, this was kind of a lost season.
SPEAKER_00It was it was interesting. Before the trade deadline, the major league team was terrible and the minor leagues were kind of barren. I mean, they'd graduated some people, so there's some reason for that. After the trade deadline, the major league team is playing well, and the minor leagues actually look very exciting. So, really, August 3rd was this, you know, watershed moment, or potentially so it's it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. But maybe uh he might have in one week redeemed himself completely. Or not completely, but redeemed himself. We'll see. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01And there was that um interview with uh Steve Cohen where he you know talked about risk and whether David Stearns had taken on too much risk, and it was sort of like talking in his financial services vocabulary, but it's kind of true. I mean, it's like you know, sometimes you go too far out and you know you could pull back a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, high risk, high reward, and sometimes the risk wins, and sometimes the reward does, right? Um, you know, I I was talking to somebody yesterday about um Pete Crow Crow Armstrong, who is you know a front runner for the MVP this year, and everybody is clamoring about what a what a terrible trade that was. And it looks like that is going to be true, that it was a terrible trade. But at the time, people didn't know PCA was gonna hit. They knew his fielding, but they didn't know he was gonna hit. He's really kind of hit his 99th percentile of outcomes, right? But the odds of that happening are very slim. So, yes, in Monday morning quarterback, it's easy to say that was a really awful trade. But at the time, you know, uh risk rewards, if that risk had won instead of reward had won, he would be a fourth outfielder and nobody would be right saying boo.
SPEAKER_01I know, and I mean we tried to sign Baez. I mean, you know, you just never know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And people forget, I mean, because we didn't make the postseason, but people forget how good Baez was on the I mean, if you look at Baez's numbers when he was with the Mets after that trade, they did not lose because of him. He was spectacular. Now he didn't initiate the whole thumbs down crap, which you know sucked Lindor into as well. But anyway. But it's just again, it's really more about the you don't you don't always know what you have. And um and sometimes they work out and sometimes they don't. Risk management. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01All right.
SPEAKER_00Good?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. I think uh cover, I mean, you know, it'll be fun to you know keep on watching the team for the rest of the season. I agree.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree. No stakes, and then uh the problem is it's it it's gonna it could be a very brutal offseason. Um I wish there had been more I wish we have more baseball ahead of us than we do. True enough.
SPEAKER_01So all right. All right, so it's been another episode of Ethan and Andy City. Uh we'll be back soon, and uh good talking to you.
SPEAKER_00As always, Ethan, as always.